Comedic Legend Sandra Bernhard Chit Chats About ‘Pose,’ Madonna, Jerry Lewis’ Sexism & Being Discovered At 22 By Richard Pryor. All In Promo Ahead Of The L.A. Debut Of Her New Show, "Sandra Bernhard: Madness & Mayhem."

Gay-Con Sandra Bernhard Chit Chats About ‘Pose,’ Madonna, Jerry Lewis’ Sexism & Being Discovered At 22 By Richard Pryor. All In Promo Ahead Of The L.A. Debut Of Her New Show, "Sandra Bernhard: Madness & Mayhem."

"Actress, comedian, chanteuse — there’s very little Sandra Bernhard hasn’t done since bursting onto the scene in the late 1970s. She started out as a regular at The Comedy Store, performing alongside Richard Pryor, who cast Bernhard, then 22, in his short-lived NBC variety show The Richard Pryor Show in 1977. 

By 1983, she was working with Martin Scorsese in The King of Comedy, playing a crazed comedy fan who, together with Robert De Niro’s Rupert Pupkin, kidnaps talk-show legend Jerry Langford (Jerry Lewis). 

Along the way, she honed her club act — a mix of comedy, pop-culture observations, social commentary and cover songs — and the shows, like 1985’s I’m Your Woman and 1988’s Without You, I’m Nothing, With You, I’m Not Much Better, became must-sees among the cool set. Now 66, Bernhard — last seen on TV playing nurse Judy on Pose — brings an all-new show, Sandra Bernhard: Madness & Mayhem, to The Wallis in Beverly Hills on Friday, Oct. 8. 

She chatted with The Hollywood Reporter about her return to the stage, her provocative friendship with Madonna and the misogyny she faced being a trailblazing woman in comedy.

Hi Sandra. You’re a gay icon.

A gay-con. Good.

What can we expect from the new show?

I did it [two years ago] at Joe’s Pub [in New York City]. I never really got to do it anywhere, because the pandemic hit. So some of those pieces are still there. But I have so much [new] material now. I mean, it’s close to two hours, which is a long time to be onstage. But it moves so quickly with the songs, that it all works together really well. And I’ll have my band with me in L.A. It’s experiential, I think.

Do you sing “Little Red Corvette?” I love your Prince covers.

Yes.

I’m excited. Let’s talk about some other stuff you have going on. Pose.

What do you want to know about it?

How did you get that part?

I actually ran into [Pose co-creator and co-executive producer] Steven Canals and Our Lady J, coming off a flight from L.A. to New York. And Judith Light, who I know and I’m friends with, had been kind of talking with them, and she introduced us on the escalator at American Airlines. If you’ve been to New York, the escalators go down at JFK, and then you walk across, then you go back up another set of escalators. By the time we got to baggage claim, I said to them, I said, “I’d love to do something on the show. If there’s any roles or characters that seem appropriate, keep me in mind.”

And so, simultaneously, they had just written nurse Judy onto the show in the first season. And when they went back to tell Ryan Murphy about it, he said, “Yes, done. Cast her.” I heard back from them within two weeks.

That’s the first positive airport story I’ve heard in a while.

It was really fortuitous. So I always look at Judith Light as sort of my guardian angel, because she’s so sweet, and she’s so generous and cool. So I always like to give a shout-out to Judy Light.

Were you at that premiere party, where Janet Mock gave her now-legendary “fuck Hollywood” speech?

Yes, I was.

What was that experience like, to be there in person?

Well, it was weird. It was weird and surreal, and everybody I think had their own unique reaction to it. Because it was really the first red carpet back after the pandemic, there weren’t that many people there at all. It was just basically the cast and a few outlets covering it.

But I don’t know. I didn’t really understand what was going on, to be honest with you. So for me it was like, I don’t know, it was a little bit … it was disarming. It was disarming and a little bit weird and entertaining at the same time. But I don’t know. That’s about as much as I can really say about it, just because I know it was upsetting for certain people who worked on the show behind the scenes a lot more than I did. I think it was hard for people. So I’ll just leave it at that.

OK. I want to talk about Madonna. Do you talk about your friendship with Madonna?

I mean, it’s sort of hard to talk about it 30 years later. But I can tell you that when we were friends 30 years ago, it was a completely different time. And she was a much different person. I mean, I don’t know how she is now. She might be exactly the same. I don’t know. But nobody’s the same because, we have children. Life changes you. But at that time, it was the right time for our friendship.

We just had a lot of fun at that time and that’s all I can kind of say about it, because it doesn’t exist in its present state. So I don’t know, there’s not much to reflect on it at this point, other than it was a good time. Good time was had by all.

Do you remember anything about that joint David Letterman appearance? [In a 1988 episode, Madonna’s first time on Letterman, the two wore matching jean shorts and white T-shirts and played up lesbian-romance rumors.] 

Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I went out first. And they knew she was going to come out. And then we’d kind of planned to dress alike. I mean, we planned it a little bit. And then of course, it just went off on its own spontaneous fashion. And yeah, it’s just became kind of a legendary appearance for both of us.

I have this memory of you appearing on MuchMusic. I guess this was after the two of you had grown apart. You were talking about the video for “Vogue,” and you were kind of making fun of how she rhymed “too” with “you.” You were kind of dissing the lyrics. That left a big impression on teen me.

I always talked about songs and videos and music and fashion and people in the business. It was a lot about what my shows were about back then. And it was, of course, easier to do it back then — because you didn’t have social media and not everybody thought they could be a social commentator, whatever that means to people now. So that was my specialty. And so, whatever was happening in the moment, that’s what I would always talk about in my shows. And people love that. And I still do it a little bit, but it’s not as much fun to do it now, as it was back then.

You really were ahead of the time in terms of all this celebrity obsession and sharing opinions and gossip. But it was all concentrated in your show. You have to go to the show to experience it.

Exactly. How great is that?

Can we talk about The King of Comedy? I’m going through all your greatest hits, but I have you, so I’ve got to do it.

Sure.

Maybe one of my favorite movies of all time. I mean, it’s so amazing.

It certainly was. Also, it was very precious, because again, it dealt with topics like fame and people’s obsession with fame and the lengths they would go to be famous. And those are all things that have surpassed even the wildest expectations of what that film was about. But the actual experience of shooting it of course, was amazing. I mean, to work with three of the the top people in the business: Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro and, in his own crazy way, Jerry Lewis.

To be that young and to be amongst those people was a pivotal experience for me. And it was really interesting just to stand back and watch everybody work and also be respected by those people and welcomed into that sort of luminary world.

Well, I’m actually curious about Jerry Lewis the most. He’d said things about women not being as funny as men, and he could be such a sort of grouch in interviews. Was he nice to you?

He was — I wouldn’t say nice, but I think that I’ve learned a lot from being around him. I mean, he was Jerry Lewis. So however he was, or however he was sort of positioned in his opinions of women, really was neither here nor there, because we’ve been living in a misogynistic society for decades and decades. And we’re just barely coming out the other side. So that never really threw me, because I was used to it from being in the comedy scene anyway.

It’s funny how I have these specific memories of you. Like, I also remember you defending L.A. once. This was many years before I moved here. It was always popular to kind of crap on L.A. And you were like, “No, I like L.A.” Do you still like L.A.?

I do. I love L.A. I mean, it’s very unusual for me not to be out there every couple of months. But during the pandemic, we just didn’t travel. I finally made it back to L.A. in July, and I’m coming back. And now I expect to be out there again on a more regular basis.

I mean, New York just became home for me. This is where I met my partner, and our daughter went to school here, and this is where she prefers. So this is our base, but I love spending time in L.A. I don’t know. I like the openness of it. I like the kind of free spirited-ness of it. And I miss it when I’m not there but kind of can’t be in both places all the time at the same time.

I guess at the time, there was only the Beverly Hills vision of what I thought it was, and you made it sound like a really cool place. And it is a cool place.

I always loved Beverly Hills, too. I mean, nothing wrong with Beverly Hills.

I’d love to see you walking down with shopping bags in Beverly Hills. That would be awesome.

Well, you probably won’t see that, because I find better ways to spend my money. But you could see me there just hanging out. I liked it better when I was there working as a manicurist, when people were a little more down-to-earth. Now of course, it’s sort of the Kardashian-esque vibe, which does not appeal to me in any city. I like the old school Beverly Hills." - Hollywoodreporter.com